Ep 153: Regenerating natural ecosystems with Microsoft

Lou Waldegrave 00:02

Welcome to the Circular Economy Show. I'm Lou and today we're asking if any business regardless of sector can regenerate nature. For our guests from Microsoft, the answer is a resounding yes. And we're going to hear more about their journey towards the circular economy and project design data centres that enhance ecosystem services. I'm joined by Kaitlin Chuzi who was Microsoft's Director of Biomimicry and Alessandra Pistoia, who leads Microsoft's Circular Economy programme. Now, many of our listeners will know that data centres are warehouse size facilities that hold the servers that create the cloud where much of the data from our digital activities is stored. So my first question to Kaitlin was, what is a regenerative data centre?

Kaitlin Chuzi 00:58

I want to preface this by saying regenerative data centres are a technology that we're working towards. It's a big idea that's going to take a lot of people to accomplish. But when we think about a regenerative data centre, it's about designing a data centre that's not only a hub of cutting edge it but it's also a sanctuary for biodiversity. It's about a data centre that takes into account its environmental footprint, and it actively contributes to the restoration and enhancement of the natural environment. So it goes beyond traditional sustainability by incorporating additional principles, things like biomimicry, and ecosystem dynamics in order to create a positive impact on the the footprint where it sits and also the ecosystems around it. So this is going to incorporate things like you know, energy efficiency and renewable energy use. It involves, you know, high productivity, water stewardship, biodiversity enhancement, things like waste, heat reuse, and ecosystem integration. But it also incorporates other things like waste, circularity and community engagement. So nothing in nature exists in isolation, and neither do regenerative datacenters, we have to take into consideration not just their local footprint, but also the broader local context and the communities where they sit. So as kind of a high level overview, but it gives you an idea of the different pieces and parts that go into the creation of a regenerative data centre.

Lou Waldegrave 02:37

So what does your role as Biomimicry Director entail? And why do you think Microsoft has created this position?

Kaitlin Chuzi 02:48

Yes, so my role entails quite a lot of things, a good number of things, but it's really about looking at our technology through a new lens. And asking the question, what if a data centre could be not only a hub of cutting edge it, but also a sanctuary for biodiversity. And so that means looking at our data centres from a number of different perspectives, everything from how they use water, or to how they support biodiversity. And it's really important that Microsoft and any large data centre company, any technology company starts looking through this lens, because the services that we provide are increasing in demand. And that's not going anywhere. So it's important that not only Microsoft as a technology company thinks about this, but any of our service providers, any of our competitors, as well. This is something where we all whether it's a technology company, or any other industrial company has to think about it, in order to really make a difference and have a positive impact.

Lou Waldegrave 03:54

Microsoft has data centres all over the world. So how different is this work comparatively, you know, locally and geographically?

Kaitlin Chuzi 04:05

That's a great question. And I want to take a quick step back, because I think it's important that we recognise that if we're going to change the way that we think about regeneration at a global scale, we have to also change the way that we think about technology. And so there's a kind of a shift in definition that I like to use to really flip this thinking on its head, which is, you know, if we start thinking about technology as anything that frees an organism from its physical or mental limitations, then we start to see that humans aren't the only organism that create technology. And so we can actually start looking to the natural world for other examples of technology that give back and create regeneration. So let me give you an example because I know this sounds pretty abstract. But if you think about bird nests, right? bird nests are a way that they can raise their young keep the You're secure and warm and happy and comfy, all within this built structure that is built using completely local sustainable materials that you know last appropriately for the life of, of the nest and the young. There's also examples like termite mounds that do passive cooling, and evaporative cooling in order to keep the termite mounds, a comfortable temperature for the termites year round, no matter how hot it gets outside. And then the last one that I like to use is ants have actually been farming for 50 million years, they've been cultivating a particular type of fungus that's not found in the habitat around them for 50 million years without the use of pesticides or fertilisers. Right. And so we can actually leverage those same ideas, in order to reshape the way that we think about technology. And that's how we're pulling that thinking into our data centres to recognise that our technology, it's pretty amazing, and it's pretty cutting edge. But it's not the only example of technology that's been created by nature. Because don't forget, humans are part of nature too. And so when we think about ourselves like that, we start to see our data centres just as a local representation of human technology in a given place. And we can start pulling from the natural lessons of the ecosystems where we operate. So we started by doing a pilot and the North Holland region in order to explore how green we could actually make a data centre, how much could we restore the ecosystem next to a data centre, which would given the underground utilities and the fact that data centres are created for reliability and security, dependability, and really high efficiency, it's actually surprisingly difficult to green a data centre. But the work that we've done in North Holland has helped us to create a playbook that can be used in any other temperate region that has a similar climate to North Holland. So wild, like the very specifics of like plant selection will change the general strategies, the principles, the guidelines, all of those things can actually be applied to any other data centre that sits within a temperate region. So it takes just a small subset of solutions and a few pilots in order to understand how it works in order to like get this global scale impact across our data centres. So we can take learnings from one location and actually spread them across something like 43% of our other data centre locations. So since that first pilot, we've actually created six different ecosystem playbooks to help with our data centres in other biomes, which are particular habitat types. So we're actually covering something like 90% of Microsoft's data centre footprint with these design playbooks.

Lou Waldegrave 07:46

Kaitlin has outlined a regenerative approach to data centre design that is implemented locally, but has the potential to work across Microsoft's global infrastructure. I wanted to understand a little bit more of exactly what this looks like in practice.

Kaitlin Chuzi 08:03

One of my favourite examples, going back to that North Holland region is actually work that we've done in the community of mitten mirror, which is near our data centres. We partnered with a local organisation called the tiny forest initiative, where we worked to help fund the completion of these tiny forests. They're very small, something like 100 square metres, but they help boost biodiversity on a very small scale. But they become these, you know, green refuges that students can actually go to in order to learn about nature and biodiversity. And it helps to create what we call pixelated healing, where you can start to see the natural habitat actually be restored and regenerated thanks to these well spread out tiny forests. And we've actually partnered with a local organisation called biomimicry, Netherlands in order to host a biomimicry day so that local school children can actually learn about nature, in these tiny forests in place. And so it's about working across scales, recognising that the work that we do has a local impact, but everything that we do in one particular region can serve as a learning and a way of catalysing the rest of the network.

Lou Waldegrave 09:17

Alessandra do parallels here between Caitlin's regenerative data centre work and Microsoft's of wider Circular Economy approach.

Alessandra Pistoia 09:27

I was just going to add a reflection as well. So I part of my role leading circular economy for the organisation is to make progress on our target within our operations to be to divert 90% of our operational waste. And to do that we have reduction, reuse, and then recovery practices and play. And I just want to reflect that like the approach that Caitlin is taking on regeneration also really is paired allowed to how we think about operational success when it comes to circular economy to the point where we kind of we take a like 80 20% approach where 80% of what we do is a global playbook if you were well, whereas 20% is that localised specific adaptation that considers things like culture? What material recovery infrastructure is even available today? What materials can that does that site have access to, and the local aspect of that is so important, I think, for both of the work that both of our work, because if we want these programmes and projects to be successful in the long term, it has to land with the community and the people as well as the local environment to support it. And I think that, like if, if people who are listening to this are going to leave with one thing, I would say there's hope. If you're in a global corporation, there's hope that there's aspects of any circular economy programme, which includes regenerative programmes can be standardised, but you will always have to have some type of local specificity. And that I think, is what makes these programmes so exciting because you can make it reflect the people who live there, and the ecosystem that you're in, which adds a little more like interest and longevity to the program's

Lou Waldegrave 11:34

Caitlin has outlined a vision where technology infrastructure, including data centres could be part of regenerating nature. I wanted to understand from Alessandra whether this mindset and approach is influencing Microsoft's wider approach to the circular economy.

Alessandra Pistoia 11:54

When I consider Caitlin's conversation around like, how do you bring together nature and technology? Caitlin does a lot of work that looks at the data centre building itself, and how it embeds into a local ecosystem. I spend a lot of my time looking inside our four walls at the actual like technology and servers that flows through our data centres. And so while it's really easy to think about like a food system being regenerative, or even like an ecosystem, providing better services for the local community, I think it gets a little bit more challenging to think about how does a technical or technological process become regenerative. And I would say we're considering what that can look like for Microsoft or really any technology company by taking the like general architecture of nature and biomimicry. I was reading through EMF sweb site just the other day, and you all had a really nice sentence that was like when a leaf falls from a tree, it feeds the forest. Yeah. And that, to me, really kind of embody the approach that we're trying to take like when a server gets decommissioned? How can it feed a technological system. And so while it's hard to make like a one to one comparison of like, a leaf in a tree for in technology, and how it feeds the broader system, that's the general approach that we're taking to it. So that we don't we can get out of this like linear model of material use and get into a model that's more circular and self sustaining. So

Lou Waldegrave 13:41

what sort of work is this gonna entail? It's obviously going to take a mess of shift, isn't it?

Alessandra Pistoia 13:48

Yeah, I think it's a total change in the way that we operate internally, as well as partnering with other companies to build a circular system. I can share one example of how we're changing our processes internally. We have these facilities called circular centres that sit right next to our data centre facility. And within circular centres, we pull off the decommission servers, and we harvest parts from those servers. So these parts could be used to repair a server that something is broken or needs an updated version, whatever it is, so we can repair the servers. And that's an essence a way of like feeding our technological system to extend the life use of that material. And then once we get to a point where we can't use any of the materials of that server, we will either give it back to a supplier, we'll sell it on a secondary market. We'll send it to E waste recycler, depending on where it is, in the stage of its life, it does go on to feed a broader technological system, which like, the idea is that it ends up back in a technology supply chain, or any supply chain. So that materials continued to be circulated.

Kaitlin Chuzi 15:17

It's a really important concept, this idea of regeneration, because we've been doing so much we've had these linear extractive methods as a human species for a very long time. And so leaning into regeneration and recognising that it there's a quote from from Freud that says the absence of disease is not health. And I think the absence of negative impact on our ecosystems is not the same thing as a healthy ecosystem. And so regeneration, and working in regeneration is how we actually get to that place. And it's not something that humanity has actively done, and post the industrial revolution. But it's something that we are learning how to do. And it's important that we do it, so that we can stop having a negative impact on the places where humanity touches, but actually recognising that any place that we touch, we can heal. And that's really the importance of regeneration. So

Lou Waldegrave 16:15

how do you go about measuring your impact in the space and tell success stories that will drive internal buy in.

Alessandra Pistoia 16:25

So we do it two different ways, I would say for the programme that I lead, we end 2020 And a year, in 2020, we set 10, zero waste targets. So these are quantitative time bound targets that address, design use, as well as end of life. So that full lifecycle of materials across our operations products and packaging, I was mentioning circular centres before we have a target related to circular centres, which is to reuse and recycle 90% of our servers by 2025. Last year, we are at 89.4%. So we're very close to meeting that commitment. And so that's just one example of how we're tracking progress. When we look at right, today, we have six circular centres next year, we're going to add two more and expand to existing ones as well. So we have specific metrics as well for the circular centres that we are continuously tracking. And that helps us identify where circular centres are best suited because that programme will continue to grow, as our company does. But yeah, I would say primarily, it's the public targets that we set. And we do annual reporting on those targets. And it really has helped the business stay focus on what's important to the company. Because there's a lot of with regulation continuing to change, there can be a lot of distraction. And I would the the targets that we set in 2020 really helped us like anchor in to where we're going to 2025 as well as 2030. And then I know, Caitlin, you're measuring a whole other set of metrics in terms of our ecosystem. So maybe you can share a little bit more about that, too. Yeah,

Kaitlin Chuzi 18:28

that'd be happy to. So I really want to emphasise the importance of the work that Alexandre is leading. from a biological perspective, the waste cycle, I mean, humans call it the waste cycle. But it really is the nutrient cycle in nature. And it's so critical that we don't that we don't overlook that or see it as a waste cycle in the human sense. It really is a new, ever replenishing source of resources. And so, especially as humans are, are innovating this new technosphere that sits on top of the biosphere, we have to recognise that these things interact, and that there is going to be an interplay between technology and nature. And so kind of in parallel to that one of the ways that my team is working to measure our impacts, is working in partnership with the Microsoft premonition team. So our premonition device allows us to do real time biodiversity monitoring, using AI on our data centre campuses, and we're actually deploying the device in more places in order to get a sense of how are we supporting biodiversity in our data centres? And how can we actually track and monitor and make this tool available to other organisations so that they can have a better understanding in real time, how they're functioning. And to me it's a really exciting example of how we can use high tech in order to support High Nature High thriving high health ecosystem. It's really costly and complicated to do ongoing biodiversity monitoring, if you imagine an ecologist or an environmental scientist having to go out to a particular place and, you know, count individual species over a long period of time and terrible weather, especially if you've got a large land area to cover, that's really time intensive, and it's really complicated. But leveraging our premonition device, we actually have the ability to do continuous real time monitoring. And we're building out additional models in order to get a better sense of other species. Right now we're looking at flying insect species, which are a great correlate for overall biodiversity. But we're looking at adding in additional capabilities in order to measure other types of organisms in the same habitat, and get a more complete picture of what biodiversity is actually doing on a particular plot of land. But that can help to really serve this, you know, recursive circular model, in order to say, hey, you know, this is the biodiversity that we're seeing, let's compare this to a healthy intact habitat and say, Does this measure up compared to what we would expect to see. And then we can actually start to do adaptive management on a data centre site and start to really shape that ecosystem to make sure it's as highly functioning as what we'd see in other habitats. And we can do that, using a methodology that actually quantifies ecosystem services. So ecosystem services are the benefits that humans derive from healthy, intact habitats. So if you think about whenever you take a walk in a forest, and the air smells clean, and you hear the birds, and it's really beautiful, you know, the air is fresh. Those are ecosystem services that nature is providing simply by being. And so humans can actually learn to emulate those ecosystem services that are produced by nature, and start to make them ourselves intentionally. So we're incubating a methodology in order to measure those ecosystem services. And our preliminary models show that we could actually retain about 75%, even while having a data centre on a particular plot of land, so there's a number of different ways that we're measuring biodiversity and a number of our other climate goals. And it's really about what data do we have, and then pushing into those edges to recognise, you know, ecosystems are complex? How can we innovate new ways to get a better understanding of them so that we can do better every day?

Alessandra Pistoia 22:43

And I'll add to something that Caitlin just mentioned around technology use reminded me that we have an interesting use of technology and for our circular centres, which we call intelligent routing. So not only are we tracking, like, what how many servers are reused versus recycled, but we're also looking at once a server comes off the line, where should it go next? And what is the next best use of that part or of that server? And that's what we call intelligent routing. So it's becoming not only a tracking and monitoring exercise for Microsoft, but also how do we enable technology to help us understand the best use the next best use of the material? And what which considers how to optimise for environmental impact, meaning we don't want to ship apart halfway across the world. Instead, how can we keep it more local to reduce the carbon emissions and send that to a place that another data centre that needs that part because they have a server that will need a repair pretty soon? So I think that's also a unique aspect of the type of work that we're leaving not only to build better technology in the broadest sense of like, how do we build buildings? But also how do we use software programmes to help us do it even better than what we were before?

Lou Waldegrave 24:16

Finally, I wanted to hear from Alessandra and Caitlin, what was the one thing they wished they had known before starting this journey?

Kaitlin Chuzi 24:27

So I guess what I wish I had known before I started this work. I wish I had known how many people were aching for this type of work. I wish I had known how many people were excited and enthusiastic and waiting for the permission the business case, the reason the excuse to do it. I feel like everywhere I've tried to do a project I've learned about The secret passion that people have for nature and the world around them, you know, whether that's, you know, at one data centre, we were working with security, and folks were like, you know, Microsoft has really high security standards, you know, you got to make sure that you talk to security, it might be kind of challenging, because we got to make sure that we really maintain that security for our data centres. And so I was a little nervous. And then I talked to our team of security experts, and they were like, secret gardening enthusiasts who couldn't wait to help problem solve and figure out how they could how they could help. And, you know, there's another another gentleman who reached out and I was, I was a little nervous, I was like, Oh, he, you know, he seems to have maybe a health and safety concern about something on site. And his health and safety concern was that there were oyster catchers laying eggs in some of our newly planted areas, and he wanted to make sure that the birds were okay. And so, you know, it's this secret passion that, you know, I think sometimes, you know, I talk about nature and technology from a very different lens. And so sometimes I can feel a little hesitant to get into my full philosophy about nature, because it's a little different. And that can be a little, a little vulnerable feeling at times. But I wish I had known early on that there's actually a tonne of people who have that same love that same passion, that same desire to take care of the places where they live. And it I think it really would have given me permission sooner to share these big bold ideas, to talk about them more broadly, because people want to take care of the places where they live, there's a deep passion for them. And so, you know, I guess, I wish I had known and I hope other people are starting to see that. There's other folks out there who want to make sure that, you know, the world is healthy and thriving, not just for humanity. But for the more than human world broadly. I think we can do a lot of really good work when we realise that we've got allies and collaborators and CO conspirators in this space. I'd

Alessandra Pistoia 27:05

love that Kaline, because I it really does take a village. And in our case, it's a global village of people to get this work done. And there there is a shared common ground of wanting to care for where you live, or your neighbourhood or even your street. Like there's an access point that all of us have and connecting to one another, about nature. So we really tried to like centre that and our conversations internally, as well as like working with partners externally. I think for I wish I would have known the importance of considering other people's business priorities as well. So when we first set our sustainability commitments in 2020, it was really forward on like, these are the commitments that we have. And this is how we want to be sustainable, which is really great. But when it comes to executing on the commitments, is, it's important to understand what's important to your colleagues, even if you know, they care about nature, they also have a business priority. Like I think data security is a really great example, Caitlin. And when we were proposing the circular centre programme, we we showed how circular centres could not only be good for sustainability, but actually helps us improve data security. And that was one of the big reasons why the programme has taken off, I think, because we combine those two, and showed how it fits into our broader company story and meets or achieves multiple priorities that the business has has and that really united Our colleagues are leaders under this idea and operational execution around circular senators. So I would say like understanding the connection of like, yes, sustainability, and also how do you work with your colleagues to help them achieve their priorities, and that will help smooth the path towards a successful execution.

Lou Waldegrave 29:14

Thanks, Kaitlin, and thanks, Alessandra. And of course, thank you for listening to this episode of the Circular Economy Show. Please do leave us a review so that others can discover the podcast. Join us again for more on the ever evolving world of the circular economy.