Ep 165: Plastic pollution: What is INC-5 and why does it matter?

Lou Waldegrave 00:00

At the end of this month in Busan, Korea, Inc five takes place. This is the UN International negotiating committee who will gather for the fifth and final time to create a UN treaty with legally binding global rules to end plastic pollution. Today, I'm thrilled to be joined by Marta Longhurst, the foundation's global treaty manager, who has already represented us at previous Inc meetings, and indeed will be heading to Korea in just two weeks time. Marta, thank you so much for joining me today.

Marta Longhurst 00:39

Hi, Lou.

Lou Waldegrave 00:40

Hi, right, let's crack on. Why do we need a legally binding global plastics treaty?

Marta Longhurst 00:50

Plastic Pollution is a critical issue globally. It overwhelms our waste management systems. It floods into our waterways, so oceans and rivers, it gets into the air soil. There are concerns about implications for human health. We also know that the plastic production is projected to increase significantly, something like tripling by 2060 and if we leave this increase unabated, then it will be very difficult for us to limit global warming to one and a half degrees that's needed to meet the climate change challenges. So it is a global issue that's affecting us all. It's a very complex issue, and recognizing the scale of this challenge, the governments decided over two and a half years ago that it's important to solve this issue globally by adopting a legally binding treaty and that will allow the governments to tackle plastic pollution in a coordinated way, but to do that, it's important that the UN treaty is based on global rules and addresses the whole life cycle of plastics.

Lou Waldegrave 02:16

So there's a need for policy at an a global level.

Marta Longhurst 02:21

Yes, exactly. Voluntary. Action is important, but it is voluntary. The largest initiative that focuses on tackling plastic waste and pollution. Global commitment unites over 1000 organizations in this effort, but they tackle something like 20% of plastic packaging that is put on the market so that it that remains 20% of the market, and we need the full 80% to to go the full way, and this is where we need this harmonization of rules, because that will enable a coordinated effort at a global scale, and policy as a key enabler for this.

Lou Waldegrave 03:13

Yeah. So, so we already know that over 250 actually businesses and financial institutions, including many of the world's largest consumer goods companies, have joined the business Coalition for a global plastics treaty. What long term economic, environmental and social opportunities could a well designed treaty unlock?

Marta Longhurst 03:40

Okay, well, from the business point of view, global rules create a level playing field. So if you think about about the way business works, and if it needs to adhere to global rules, it's easier with regards to its operations. It can streamline the operations, as opposed to having to follow national legislations and the patchwork of different regulations across, for example, 40 or 50 different countries. So that means that the business is able to streamline its operations be more efficient, and that frees up funds for investment in technology, in new materials, new business models, and it the benefits don't only don't only work for large organizations, but also for small and medium sized businesses. We did a report with WWF recently, and the findings were also very clear that MSMEs also broadly support an ambitious treaty based on global rules, because they also see the benefits that are brought by such a treaty by designing new markets, by creating new. Um, job opportunities. So from the business point of view, the business case is clear. And then from government point of view, governments can also expect significant savings due to streamlining of waste management. So if you think about a treaty that's designed based on comprehensive Circular Economy measures. Circular Economy is all about creating a world where plastic never becomes waste or pollution. So such a treaty would allow governments to massively reduce waste management costs, and this savings are expected in the range of something like 200 billion US dollars. Then there is also additional reduction of administrative burden, where the governments won't need to develop their own technical requirements, their own regulations, they won't need to set their own reporting frameworks, and this is really relevant, especially for governments who have lower capacity and are not able to support all these efforts. So that could free them up and free their resources up to channel to other efforts. And finally, governments could avoid the ballooning costs of implications that plastic pollution has on the environment and on human health. So broadly, there is a lot of benefits to gain from a well designed and ambitious treaty.

Lou Waldegrave 06:38

Yeah, it sounds like a when, when Marta you were at Inc four in Ottawa, Canada, six months or so ago. What sort of progress, if any, did you see come out of those negotiations? And what do you think the outlook is for this final round?

Marta Longhurst 06:57

I'll come to the outlook in a minute, but I guess, in terms of the development since Ottawa, there were very two important, two important developments. First, there was technical work that took place between Ottawa and and now going into Bucha and that took the form of delegations and their experts convening in several meetings, face to face and also virtual meetings to discuss specific topics. For example, look at what how could the treaty be financed? Or how could you decide which problematic or avoidable plastic products to restrict or phase out, or how to improve product design. And these meetings were very important because they allowed the national delegations to enhance their technical knowledge of the subject, which is basically important if they are to design the obligations for member states, it's important that they are aware of the latest developments in science and of the latest thinking there to be able then to decide what measures to put in place. So that was a very important positive outcome of Inc for and then the other important development was, is the proposal by Inc chair, Ambassador Luis Valdez, on how to approach this last round of negotiations. And some of the listeners might be familiar with the series of papers that the ambassador released called non papers, but basically in in these documents, the chair outlined which elements to prioritize for discussion at Inc five so that we Get to land a meaningful treaty in this last round of negotiations. So that's the that's what's, what's what's happened since Antoine. But then in terms of your other part of the question, what to expect, I think experts in multilateral negotiations will say to you that until this gavel has fallen. It's really difficult to say there are still many outcomes on the table. There will be probably three. Well, for sure, there will be three topics on discussion and for discussion. Firstly, finance will be discussed, how to finance the implementation of the treaty, and it's important to highlight that the treaty needs to be include measures that will support countries that need this kind of support, because there needs to be fair and inclusivetransition. So that will be a super important topic to address and agree on. And then another part of the discussion will be around, should the measures be based on global rules, or should they be determined by countries at the national level? So I've highlighted the benefits of going down the route of global rules already, yeah. And then the third big topic on the agenda will be with regards to how to address plastic production, versus just focusing on waste management. And at this point, I just want to emphasize how important that addressing of plastic production will be, because we can't recycle our way out of this crisis. There is so much evidence that speaks to the fact that there is no silver bullet. We need to reduce, we need to reuse, we need to redesign, we need to introduce alternative materials. So this whole comprehensive approach will be very important, so many, many outcomes, potential outcomes on the table, and we'll know more on the, I guess, first second of December.

Lou Waldegrave 11:15

Marta, what is crucial to come out of these final negotiations and career if we're to cut a clear pathway through this plastics crisis?

Marta Longhurst 11:27

Well, there is, there is only seven days for the negotiations. So with the amount of work that the governments still have ahead of them, it's absolutely crucial that they prioritize and in the text at Inc five agree some strong starting points for the treaty, for example, whic avoidable and problematic plastic products and chemicals of concern to phase out and restrict. And agreeing that gives a clear signal to the market as to which direction they should innovate in. The other important area will be around how to redesign products, how to improve product redesign, because currently, 30% of plastic packaging will never be recycled or reused without a fundamental redesign. So it's important that at a global level, there are some clear guidelines and rules of how to do it. And then, thirdly, extended producer responsibility is a very important lever to enable circulation of the plastics that we do need, because it's a proven way of basically providing funding that is sufficient for the collection, for the sorting and for the processing of the plastics that we need. So the treaty can and should set up some definitions and key principles of again, how to how should the EPR be implemented globally, because otherwise there will be again a patchwork of 50 plus different EPR schemes around the world. So these are super important starting points, together with measures on how to address reduction of plastic production, which I've spoken about before. And finally, because these are we only have seven days, or rather, the member states only have seven days for the negotiations, it's clear that they won't be able to agree on everything. So it's very important that in that last round, they also agree on the structures and process of how to strengthen the treaty over time, so that it can be subsequently strengthened through the Conference of the Parties, sp the COPs, basically.

Lou Waldegrave 14:02

Wow. You guys certainly have a big job ahead of you. All the very best from the team here, and I'm sure all our listeners. Marta, is there anything else you want to add before you head off to career?

Marta Longhurst 14:15

Thanks, Lou, yes. I mean, plastic has a role to play in a society, but it's the way we make it, use it and manage it that needs to change. So we need a circular economy for plastic, where it never becomes waste, or a pollution where we eliminate the plastics that we don't need. We innovate so that the plastics we need are circulated and are kept out of the environment, and all stakeholder holders have a role to play. Business and finance sector need to keep going and driving action, but right now, we have this incredible opportunity to harmonize policy at a global level. It is in the hands of the governments now, but when they get it right, and the treaty is fit for purpose that will really accelerate the transition to Circular Economy and allow us to tackle the root causes of plastic pollution. So basically, we urge the governments to keep that chance and to unite an ambition and adopt a treaty that is fit for purpose.

Lou Waldegrave 15:22

Martha, thank you so much. See you soon, when you're back from Korea.

Marta Longhurst 15:27

Thanks, Lou. See you soon.

Lou Waldegrave 15:30

So in this next round of negotiations, governments must agree on an ambitious starting point in the treaty text, we need finance to be effectively implemented and formalized support for countries that need it, to ensure fair and inclusive transitions for everyone, and, of course, a circular economy for the sector where we eliminate the plastics we don't need innovate to keep those we do need in circulation and ensure they're kept out of the environment. Thanks so much for listening to this podcast by the Ellen MacArthur Foundation. If you enjoyed it, please drop us a like and leave us a review. See you next time you.